Irish Royalty - Park Royal Coach Next For IRM

[Wexford70]

Another lovely photo from Rosslare in 1987. 

The train on the left, headed by two of CIE's 121 class locomotives, is bound for Dublin (Connolly), while the train on the right is for Cork.

Would these have been the suburban types or the mainline with toilets?

Really need those Tin Vans or a 6 wheel Heating and Luggage Van please IRM!!!!!

Rosslare Harbour railway station - 1987... © The Carlisle Kid cc-by-sa/2.0 :: Geograph Ireland

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Wexford70

[Sean]

ive got a 6 wheeled van........

[Wexford70]

Another example of mixed rolling stock. This time Cobh May 1971.

The train consists of what may be a 1953 built standard, a Park Royal, a "Dutch van" and a "Craven

 

And a double headed 121 set with what looks like Cravens and Park Royals on the way to Rosslare from Dublin 1987.

Limerick Junction to Limerick train in 1993 I believe. 

And finally a mix of Cravens and Park Royals at Tralee, 1984.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Wexford70

[jhb171achill]

38 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

My eyesite may be wrong but I’d swear there is 3 laminates and only 1 Park Royal’s in that train 

The middle "laminate" is actually not a laminate; it looks lime one of the older early 1950s CIE coaches, with solid timber frame rather than laminated timber. As seen elsewhere, always, mixtures were the norm. the six-wheel "tin van" is one of the last batch of these built - 1965 I think.

 

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Fowler4f said:

Hattons are bringing out 6 wheel BnT brake vans £33 each, due Q4/23- Q1/24. Interior lighting £7 extra.

There were no more than three or four of those full brakes which ended up in black'n'tan - no passenger-carrying ones ever did, as the very last ones in use were being withdrawn even as the new BnT livery was only first appearing. (This is why only the full brake is being offered in that livery).

About 7 (from memory) full brakes lasted a bit longer. At least two remained green until withdrawn 18 months to 3 years later. The remaining few, all ex-GSWR, seem 9from photos) to have ended their days on the Galway mail trains, where as late as 1967/8 they can be seen. The last two were officially withdrawn in 1969/70 but I believe hadn't been used much in recent times - one certainly hadn't.

The very last was No. 69, which is now at Downpatrick, partly converted into a brake first saloon, though it never ran like that. It has been structurally repaired, and I believe its chassis likewise; I'd love to see it in traffic. It needs little more at this stage, I think, than painting and decorating and loose furniture put into it. Anyone free at weekends?

Edited May 2, 2023 by jhb171achill

[John-r]

Re-read the OP and got the answer I needed, I suppose nobody replied as they thought, God love him he will get it eventually , six duly ordered.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Pre-ordered for definite this time

[Horsetan]

23 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Ya I understand all that but I don't have and never had a bank account....

Sure ye'd be like Bertie Ahern or one of those fellas. He didn't have a bank account either, 'cos he could cash a £38,000 cheque at his local bar....

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

Lovely photo of a Dublin Suburban set pre DART. Park Royal with Laminates. Anyone identify the two, correction three non PR coaches?

 

Typical CIE passenger train of the 1950s-80s similar in outline but no two vehicles alike!

Nearest the camera

1964 Built 6w Heating Van

1356-1371 Series Open Second/Standard-----CIE 1951-54 Stock best described as a MK2 Bredin GSR Bogies constructed using traditional coach building techniques-definitely not a Laminate.

1372-1378 Series Corridor Second/Standard--CIE 1951-54 stock: on Bulleid Triangulated Underframe with Commonwealth Bogies Built 1954. An earlier batch of these coaches 1356-1371 had conventional steel underframes and ran on GSR bogies----definitely not a Laminate

Possibly a 1958 built 1449-1496 Series Laminate Open Second/Standard. These were CIE largest/most common type of second/standard class coach during the 50-70s used mainly on main line duties before the introduction of the Supertrains in 1972 

The CIE 1951-54 Stock were built using traditional coach building techniques welded steel underframe, timber framed bodies with aluminium body panelling with cover slips. The Laminate bodies were modular construction using composite panels Aluminium skin-Insulation (asbestos?)-Plywood internal lining allowing high volume semi-skilled construction.

Interestingly CIE reverted to traditional coach building techniques for it last 100% Inchacore built coaches in 1962-4 1145-1146 Superstandard/First Class and 1444-1448 Second/Standard which ran on Bulleid Triangulated underframes with BR style Commonwealth Bogies.

While British Railways designed and built literally thousands of MK1 coaches for all its Regions during the same period CIE built/assembled three different coach each using totally different coach building techniques. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Mayner

[Noel]

Found this old video earlier when somebody commented and asked if I’ll be ordering. Chalk and cheese models, the IRM versions will be on another planet. Order placed, looking forward to the IRM versions with great anticipation. This train can be brought up to a higher standard. Still I’ve really enjoyed running these basic resin coaches since 2014.

 

[Warbonnet]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

[ttc0169]

41 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

BR and the dutch versions -both types please with working steam heating boiler

[Broithe]

3 minutes ago, ttc0169 said:

BR and the dutch versions -both types please with working steam heating boiler

The technology is there - the Hornby 00 live steamers had a boiler heated by a tiny immersion heater.

[MOGUL]

1 hour ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

Dutch is the obvious choice, can go with the park royals, the IE mark 2a/bs and the RPSI mark 2s! 

And also with a heljan tank wagon for a DASH refuelling train

Edited May 3, 2023 by MOGUL

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, ttc0169 said:

BR and the dutch versions -both types please with working steam heating boiler

While we have discussed many times the feasibility of doing GSV both Dutch and BR versions I wonder would there be a market for doing one in DCC with sound and lights both tail and interior one’s working, this would be in the price range reflected in what it is . 

Edited May 3, 2023 by flange lubricator

[jhb171achill]

I personally think you’d get a market for IRM-quality tin vans, as they were with Park Royals - plus everything else - for their first twenty years.

Plus three livery variations of them.

[DJ Dangerous]

5 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

 

How do the numbers stack up? I'm nearly sure that I saw @jhb171achill post before that there were 6 (pre-rebuild) Dutch vans and 22 BR Mk1 GSV at one stage?

EDIT: It was actually @Mayner who gave the numbers, here.

Edited May 3, 2023 by DJ Dangerous

[flange lubricator]

2 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

 

How do the numbers stack up? I'm nearly sure that I saw @jhb171achill post before that there were 6 (pre-rebuild) Dutch vans and 22 BR Mk1 GSV at one stage?

Four Wheeled and six wheeled heating vans had a very short service life compared to the Dutch and BR vans , happily IRM are doing a brake version of the Park Royal so that means you can run your New Park RoyalS and MM cravens with a brake . 

[StevieB]

The CIE rebuild of 1950’s stock as per the JM Design overlays.

Stephen

[DJ Dangerous]

3 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

While we have discussed many times the feasibility of doing GSV both Dutch and BR versions I wonder would there be a market for doing one in DCC with sound and lights both tail and interior one’s working, this would be in the price range reflected in what it is . 

 

I wonder if it would be possible / feasable to develop a light and sound unit for use across various future IRM heating vans, that could also be sold as a stand-alone unit for retrofitting Silver Fox / DC Kits / IFM / scratch-built heating vans that currently trundle along with no tail lights and no sound. An all in one IRM "Silver Box" that you can pop into your older stock.

[Sean]

5 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the pre-orders which continue to flow in, very positive. These were probably part of the last truly interesting era of coaching stock on the network, and we would dearly like to add to that range in time should these be a successful model sales wise. So, support it and you never know; more coaches from this era and we will seriously look at doing a top of the line heat van too. 

Which steam heat van would you like to see though?

Cheers!

Fran 

SO WHEN ARE THE NEW DUTCH VANS COMING OUT?!?!  

[John-r]

Definitely the Dutch van both rebuilt and unrebuilt pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. Not sure how many liveries they had maybe four or five, open to correction.  I might have mentioned the Dutch van once or twice over the years not sure,

[jhb171achill]

27 minutes ago, John-r said:

Definitely the Dutch van both rebuilt and unrebuilt pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. Not sure how many liveries they had maybe four or five, open to correction.  I might have mentioned the Dutch van once or twice over the years not sure,

They’ll only be doing Belgian ones…… it’s coz of brexit……

[ttc0169]

@Warbonnet @BosKonay @Garfield

There has been a premier room reserved for each of you in the Mk3 sleeper should you ever need to measure this one….the bar coach is arriving tomorrow 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

Four Wheeled and six wheeled heating vans had a very short service life compared to the Dutch and BR vans 

20-odd years, though, should be enough to justify them, especially bearing in mind all three liveries…..

BR & Dutch about 18 years with them….

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, John-r said:

Definitely the Dutch van both rebuilt and unrebuilt pleeeeaaaaassssseeeee. Not sure how many liveries they had maybe four or five, open to correction.  I might have mentioned the Dutch van once or twice over the years not sure,

 

My money would be on ex-BR Mk1 GSVs, looking at it just from the numbers.

22 GSVs vs. 6 Dutch vans, and they can run with current IRM PRs and future IRM PRs, current MM Cravens and future MM Cravens, RPSI Cravens set...

...and more importantly, they share cross-platform modularity with Accurascale BR Mk1 vans / coaches.

Not saying that I don't want Dutch vans, I'd love a few, but I'd also expect, and be prepared, to pay a significantly higher unit price for them.

I can't speak for other members but if an ex-BR Mk1 GSV was going to sell for €60 or €70, I'd happily pay twice that for a Dutch van.

Likewise with the Tin Vans / HLVs, I'd be happy to pay twice the price of a regular coach for one of those, and would buy more than one.

Damn you, OCD.

[irishthump]

Just preordered!

Only need a couple of coaches for my small layout but always happy to support IRM's excellent products.

Would also happily purchase a the BR and Dutch vans if they were produced.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

IRM, just bring it on Dutch, GSV even a TPO   and we will buy them all.

And a 24XX dining car and tin vans and…..!

[John-r]

2 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

IRM, just bring it on Dutch, GSV even a TPO   and we will buy them all.

Most Definitely, no question about it.

[BSGSV]

On 2/5/2023 at 4:58 PM, Wexford70 said:

Another example of mixed rolling stock. This time Cobh May 1971.

The train consists of what may be a 1953 built standard, a Park Royal, a "Dutch van" and a "Craven

 

I thought the leading carriage looked to be a Harty GSR-built corridor third (flat sides), but I enlarged the photo and don't see any truss rods, so more probably a 1339 series CIE built corridor third (second by 1971).

On a separate note, the Suburban Park Royals only seem to have got TL cabling c1980/1 or so.

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by BSGSV
Mistake!

[Robert Shrives]

Hi for the Brexit challenged among the forum how do I pre order in UK. I am sure sagely advice given but cannot now find it.  Efforts in my tiny IT challenged mind have failed and just a bit frustrated at my uselessness with anything IT.

Hoping I can be rescued!

Robert 

 

[DJ Dangerous]

39 minutes ago, Robert Shrives said:

Hi for the Brexit challenged among the forum how do I pre order in UK. I am sure sagely advice given but cannot now find it.  Efforts in my tiny IT challenged mind have failed and just a bit frustrated at my uselessness with anything IT.

Hoping I can be rescued!

Robert 

 

You should be able to order them from the IRM website:

https://irishrailwaymodels.com/collections/park-royal-coaches

I'm open to correction here, but I believe that your order will be VAT free, with the VAT payable locally on receipt of your coaches.

[Robert Shrives]

Thanks for that - that has prices in £ not Euros and I could not get past that stage, now site does not want to use my password, reset email  next ...

R 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 minutes ago, Robert Shrives said:

Thanks for that - that has prices in £ not Euros and I could not get past that stage, now site does not want to use my password, reset email  next ...

R 

 

I assume it displays in the buyer's local currency by default.

@Fowler4f has successfully ordered from the Sunny Uplands filled with Unicorns.

EDIT: IRM's .com and .co.uk sites, like the Accurascale .com and .eu sites, all require different accounts, so you may need to set up a new account if your email address is not returning any hits.

Edited May 4, 2023 by DJ Dangerous

[Robert Shrives]

Hi got it done now two double strip vehicles to go with the gene car MK1s - hopefully next time lads !  Ballina branch sorted for the little people. 

But I have several kit ones on the go!! 

Fun thing is these are same price as a farish MK2 air con coach that is not even new tooling just art deco changes, and these Park Royals have a slightly more niche market.. 

Thanks for the help 

Robert 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Robert Shrives
added info