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Project 42 Update

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Warbonnet
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On 12/19/2019 at 10:12 AM, Arran said:

The CIE 40ft i never new existed till that pic this week but my 40ft with the advertising panels is as close as it can get, so that can be done unless IMR want a run for the wagons , the BELL and B+I 40 fts we supplied for the project 42 wagons look good and its great to be involved bringing accuracy and models to the hobby that take it to the next level.

I have some loads more old style containers left to do as well as the ones you would have seen on new style containers but the earlier years like MOL with the croc on the box Orange NYK to mention some.

40' CIE atacked the right side at North Wall @Arran

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22715632@N02/25789730127/in/photolist-2fLSiCC-mUvqW8-qFSTHf-Q2YdSu-2cXQkQz-MhVjmy-FhX7gr-ndnT6w-9zUet6-bv877x-9wWsLT-bv87JH-az1Cu8-eexrgb-eexrEN-eexsom-eexrzq-eexrKA-eexrDJ-eexsCd/

 

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Hi everyone,

We are of course aware that there has been an issue with stiff axles with some of our new 42ft liner wagons. We are as disappointed with this news as you are, and have communicated this displeasure to China. The bogies used on the flats is the exact same tooling as the Tara mines wagon, and it performed very well under those wagons as well as under any flat sample we have received in the run up to the liner release. A full postmortem is going on to find out why this issue has affected some wagons in the liner release. We have also instructed China that this cannot happen on subsequent deliveries of wagons and have been assured that the matter will be dealt with and will not affect the ferts, guinness kegs, weedsprayer and spoils. 

In the meantime, Richie has taken time out to do up a quick guide on how to remedy the issue at home if you so desire. We fully agree that you SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS on a new model. But, if you want to have a go, there are some nice and very easy steps here. https://irishrailwaymodels.com/blogs/announcements/improving-the-running-of-the-42ft-flat-wagon

We also recommend running in each set for a period of 15-20 mins each, and building up your rake as they are broken in. Again, we know, you should not have to, but it will help with the issue. If you do not feel confident in tackling, email us. support@irishrailwaymodels.com

Cheers,

Fran (on behalf of Team IRM) 

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I wonder is it something to do with the brown paint.  Is it an extra layer of paint applied over black bogies?  Is the extra paint application enough to reduce clearances at a critical point therefore causing friction?  Just my thoughts.  
 

I would also say the performance of the axles show a very marked difference over the Taras, which certainly on my set are free running. 

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Just my two cents on this....

This morning I had a good look at my own wagons and to me the problem seems to be that the axle caps themselves appear to me binding where they sit into the side frames. There is actually  red oxide paint residue on the axle caps where they have been rubbing on the side frames.

 I removed the axles and with a small, fine file shaved down each axle cap. 
A couple of strokes of the file while rotating the axle is literally all it takes. This immediately made the wheelsets free running. I also added a tiny amount of Peco oil for good measure but I felt it probably wasn’t needed.

I then gave the wagons a good 30 min run on the layout without any more issues.(Previously I had derailments over pointwork and a 071 loco spun its wheels trying to pull the rake of 8 wagons around a curve.)

I know this type of “surgery” isn’t to everyone’s taste, but maybe it will help some of you.

 

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54 minutes ago, Noel said:

Hi Fran 

Thank you for this information. Is there an option to return affected wagons to IRM to have them remedied?

Noel

Hi Noel,

Of course, it is your statutory rights too. We will be able to receive returns when we reopen from January 6th. We ask any customer who wishes to do this to email us first so we can make arrangements. However, our pointers posted will solve 99% of these issues.

Many thanks,

Fran

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Can I just say that with one small drop of plastic compatible oil per axle I found the following haulage results, please note I purchased 10 wagons. 
 

Murphy 201 10 wagons all loaded. No issues

Murphy 141/181. 10 wagons 8 loaded 2 empty. No issues but another container caused spinning start  

Murphy 071  All 10 wagons plus 12 bubbles  no issues  


 

 

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18 minutes ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi Noel,

Of course, it is your statutory rights too. We will be able to receive returns when we reopen from January 6th. We ask any customer who wishes to do this to email us first so we can make arrangements. However, our pointers posted will solve 99% of these issues.

Many thanks,

Fran

Thank you for reply Fran. I'll give the 'pointers' a try on one or two of the wagons when I get some time. I'll hold off weathering until sorted. Noel

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It seems to me that the problem seems so slight that once the wagons run they will probably right themselves. Maybe the oil route first to get them running and that will hopefully do what irishthump did.

I think the factory will need to up its game and do a punitive small run of magnesites (or a large run of various laminates) in compensation 😁

Edited by DiveController
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9 minutes ago, DiveController said:

It seems to me that the problem seems so slight that once the wagons run they will probably right themselves. Maybe the oil route first to get them running and that will hopefully do what irishthump did.

I think the factory will need to up its game and do a punitive small run of magnesites (or a large run of various laminates) in compensation 😁

I agree. I think sufficient running will  sort the problem if some people would prefer not to tinker. 

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In reality after a period of running servicing will be required which is an end user job would have you lubricate these bearing points  so it is good  training !! I used the hobby white teffon   grease and a bit on a piece of card and using a pin in a pin chuck to transfer a very small bloblet was all that was required.  I kept clear of the rotating cap as I wanted to avoid any sticky residue to attract out of scale weathering!  

This was so  good I used same on my Beet wagon kits and skeletal frame flats  and this worked a treat. The wagon works mnt staff will be happy!   I really hope nobody takes up the offer on returning stock as it is so simple and it also seems a bit of running takes the extra paint off the axle retaining nibs and all is happy.  

Working with the Chinese is I am told a bit like getting married - the first product Honeymoon sees all happy but as the relationship matures some of the quality of "life" can change and constant work is needed to fully understand each other. Also it seems your partner seems to change - a bit of an open relationship in the modern world and at some time you will find the first partner you met is now busy in a new relationship and the second or third league player now your effective partner is using their neighbour  to help on Wednesdays so standards vary on that day, thus what was once a consistent output has a almost untraceable variation available to spoil the job.  However you contact your original partner- as you see it - who happily ensures you standards are kept up and keep sending the money ...    I was once advised marriage is the art of compromise and never sleep on an argument.   This relationship has not only the issues of comprehension of ideas but being most of half a world away - a case of the distance makes the heart grow fonder , I wonder.  I wish the whole trading with China well but sometimes  looking nearer home (just down the road) gives in the end a better job and certainly easier control.

Happy new year ! 

Robert 

               

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I got 15 packs and all bar 2 required running in. About 5 or 6 of my 30 wagons had axle caps that came off in the box but they went back on of but some of them started to bind with the bogies. My Dapol 68 came in great for the running in, they are just pure brute force of a model.

Bit disappointed compared to the tara wagons that ran like a dream out of the box and still do.

Sorting out all the buffer head stocks is a pain though and the amount of buffers that were poorly fitted at the factory. It's like they were really under pressure and rushed. 

I just hope the ferts and everything else going forward are to the tara wagons standard.

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4 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi everyone,

We are of course aware that there has been an issue with stiff axles with some of our new 42ft liner wagons. We are as disappointed with this news as you are, and have communicated this displeasure to China. The bogies used on the flats is the exact same tooling as the Tara mines wagon, and it performed very well under those wagons as well as under any flat sample we have received in the run up to the liner release. A full postmortem is going on to find out why this issue has affected some wagons in the liner release. We have also instructed China that this cannot happen on subsequent deliveries of wagons and have been assured that the matter will be dealt with and will not affect the ferts, guinness kegs, weedsprayer and spoils. 

In the meantime, Richie has taken time out to do up a quick guide on how to remedy the issue at home if you so desire. We fully agree that you SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DO THIS on a new model. But, if you want to have a go, there are some nice and very easy steps here. https://irishrailwaymodels.com/blogs/announcements/improving-the-running-of-the-42ft-flat-wagon

We also recommend running in each set for a period of 15-20 mins each, and building up your rake as they are broken in. Again, we know, you should not have to, but it will help with the issue. If you do not feel confident in tackling, email us. support@irishrailwaymodels.com

Cheers,

Fran (on behalf of Team IRM) 

I haven't seen hide nor hair of my B&I liners yet, so they probably won't arrive over here until well into the New Year. Presumably all these snags come as standard.

I did receive an IRM Christmas card, though.......

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I am oiling all of the axles on mine at the moment, all running freely afterwards so happy enough. I do appear to have one bogie which is too tight and is causing derailments so not entirely sure as I have oiled the centre pin as suggested and removed the bogie to scrape away any paint etc. A long run in may help.

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41 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

I haven't seen hide nor hair of my B&I liners yet, so they probably won't arrive over here until well into the New Year. Presumably all these snags come as standard.

I did receive an IRM Christmas card, though.......

Hi there,

It’s alwaya worth contacting us direct via email if you are wondering about the postal status of an order. https://irishrailwaymodels.com/pages/contact

Kind regards,

Fran

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13 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

Working with the Chinese is I am told a bit like getting married - the first product Honeymoon sees all happy but as the relationship matures some of the quality of "life" can change and constant work is needed to fully understand each other. Also it seems your partner seems to change - a bit of an open relationship in the modern world and at some time you will find the first partner you met is now busy in a new relationship and the second or third league player now your effective partner is using their neighbour  to help on Wednesdays so standards vary on that day, thus what was once a consistent output has a almost untraceable variation available to spoil the job.   This relationship has not only the issues of comprehension of ideas but being most of half a world away - a case of the distance makes the heart grow fonder , I wonder.  I wish the whole trading with China well but sometimes  looking nearer home (just down the road) gives in the end a better job and certainly easier control.

Happy new year ! 

Robert 

               

I would not get too carried away with Chinese or other national stereotypes, most countries have their own unique way of doing business and  a high proportion of businesses (manufacturing, contracting and services) East and West  have successfully used subcontractors and specialist suppliers for many years.

I am not convinced that bringing manufacture "nearer to home" to the UK will result in a better job, in my experience (30 years project and quality management UK & Ireland)  poor quality and contractors/supplier abusing the system can be as significant a problem in the UK and Ireland as overseas.  

UK & Irish contractors and suppliers sometimes were not adverse to farming out work to subcontractors without telling the client or dropping everything  for a major client with very deep pockets.

One of the unsung benefits of Chinese manufacture in OO has been the near universal adaptation of NMRA RP25 110 wheel standards, resulting in improved running and a high level of compatibility between different manufacturers, in contrast to the days when the major British (Outline) manufacturers including GMR/(Airfix/Mainline), Hornby, Lima all used different track and wheel standards.

IRMs & Accurascale's success in producing ground breaking models is likely to be a high level of business acumen  in particular a preparedness to work with their Chinese suppliers (using the Chinese manufacturing knowledge and experience) to achieve their mutual objectives rather than attempting to impose pre-conceived ideas.

Edited by Mayner
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15 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi there,

It’s alwaya worth contacting us direct via email if you are wondering about the postal status of an order. https://irishrailwaymodels.com/pages/contact

Kind regards,

Fran

I'll send you a PM, though I assume that if the liners were sent before Christmas, they're probably just resting in the British postal system somewhere.

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41 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

I'll send you a PM, though I assume that if the liners were sent before Christmas, they're probably just resting in the British postal system somewhere.

It’s best you email us as per above as it will be dealt with quicker. We are all on a Christmas break after all and only periodically checking in.

Thanks,

Fran

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Looks Good Eamon.

Funny about the Derailing, I notice when shunting over a few points in Sequence some couplings don't return to the Centre postion when the wagons return to straight track but it does cause uncoupling. When put into Reverse the couplings snap back into the Centre. Have not investigated the cause of this just yet and it does not happen to all wagons.

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2 hours ago, Noel said:

Hi Fran ( @Warbonnet ). Any news on the new Keg and Fertiliser wagon time scale? Also if you don't mind the question, are the 001(A) livery variants likely to all land at the same time In March or in batches of specified liveries? Thanks. Noel

Hi Noel,

I do not have any news to add to previous updates as our office is closed until January 6th. 
 

It is envisaged that all As will indeed arrive together. 
 

Thanks,

Fran

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TBH I think the right time to announce when they will arrive is when they are in the air or on the high seas. Patience brings all good things to those who wait. Continuous asking of when will they be here or what is the timeframe is like having the kids in the car asking are we there yet the whole time. Kinda like Donkey in Shrek.

Rich,

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1 hour ago, RedRich said:

TBH I think the right time to announce when they will arrive is when they are in the air or on the high seas. Patience brings all good things to those who wait. Continuous asking of when will they be here or what is the timeframe is like having the kids in the car asking are we there yet the whole time. Kinda like Donkey in Shrek.

Rich,

Hi Rich,

Absolutely. The forum is first to know when there is an update around timelines, developments etc. One thing we have been very good at is telling everyone what is going on (we’ve even had flak from people for ‘going on and on about it too much’) so everyone should go off previous updates, and if there is changes or developments we will inform. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Hi Noel,

I do not have any news to add to previous updates as our office is closed until January 6th. 
 

It is envisaged that all As will indeed arrive together. 
 

Thanks,

Fran

Understand Fran, Apologies I just asked as you were on the forum today and I was just looking for a quick reminder to save me having to re-read the entire thread. You mentioned a possible date to me for the Kegs at the Dublin show but I forgot, and the early post on this thread on Ferts mentioned "The Ferts are due late Q2 2018." My vague memory of what you said to me at the show was after Christmas for the Kegs and Ferts (ie Q1.2020). Would that be a reasonable assumption? I was particularly taken by the Keg sample at the show. 

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1 hour ago, Noel said:

Understand Fran, Apologies I just asked as you were on the forum today and I was just looking for a quick reminder to save me having to re-read the entire thread. You mentioned a possible date to me for the Kegs at the Dublin show but I forgot, and the early post on this thread on Ferts mentioned "The Ferts are due late Q2 2018." My vague memory of what you said to me at the show was after Christmas for the Kegs and Ferts (ie Q1.2020). Would that be a reasonable assumption? I was particularly taken by the Keg sample at the show. 

Hi Noel,

It is per our conversation at the Dublin show in October 2019. I’m not sure why you’re referencing previous posts on this thread which are well over a year old when you were given an update in person in October 2019? 
 

Thanks,

Fran

P.S -for the record, it was NEVER stated that the Guinness keg wagons would be appearing in January 2020.

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