Class 121

[Noel]

Oops - That’s just about every club in the country insulted  

Preproduction prototype looks well running. 

[Noel]

On 7/5/2019 at 11:02 AM, WRENNEIRE said:

Grills will be see through

It's a good thing this is not the 1970s or the then Archbishop of Dublin could have be writing to the moderators complaining of 'see through' anything being discussed anywhere in holy Roman Ireland. A Lexdysic might have read that 'Girls will be see through'.  Shocking 

Kit Form???  No wonder the response. 

[PJR]

Video not working WRENNEIRE

Edited July 6, 2019 by PJR

[WRENNEIRE]

Tried to edit it man, the thing has disappeared, trying to get it back....

[Noel]

7 hours ago, PJR said:

Video not working WRENNEIRE

Oh yea sure - Evidence removed from the scene of the utterances? 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Noel

[spudfan]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 8:05 PM, heirflick said:

Cutting a 121 in half would be a terrible sin - almost worse than shooting the Mother-in-Law ......the emphasis on almost!!!

"Thank you so much for the lovely birthday present. I always wanted a white blouse with a red  circle over my heart."

[DiveController]

Ah yes working your way quickly into the mother in law's heart by showering her with 'gifts'

[Irishswissernie]

Had an email from Hattons up-dating their estimated price to £154 which I think is still to low, I'm thinking close to the £200 is going to be nearer the mark. I've pre-ordered 4 but will probably up it to 6.

Ernie

[StevieB]

When I looked recently, there were only three retailers in listed on MM’s website who were offering advanced ordering of the class 121, namely Hattons and Antics in the UK and Marks Models in Ireland. No doubt others will in the future.

Stephen

[Colin R]

I have a great local model shop here in Kent (England) Invicta Model's of Sidcup Kent.  I shall wait and get mine via them. One advantage is they may be willing to do custom livery editions, if they have enough people on a list they may well do it.

Here is a link to thier website:- https://www.invictamodelrail.com/

Very good customer relations

 

Colin R

Edited July 22, 2019 by Colin R

[skinner75]

On 7/12/2019 at 1:13 PM, Irishswissernie said:

Had an email from Hattons up-dating their estimated price to £154 which I think is still to low, I'm thinking close to the £200 is going to be nearer the mark. I've pre-ordered 4 but will probably up it to 6.

Ernie

You never know - if the UK leave with No Deal in October, the value of Sterling vs the Euro may plummet, and £200 could work out to be €150!  
(I suppose Hattons would just pump the price up to £300 if that was the case though)

[Colin R]

20 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

You never know - if the UK leave with No Deal in October, the value of Sterling vs the Euro may plummet, and £200 could work out to be €150!  
(I suppose Hattons would just pump the price up to £300 if that was the case though)

I hope not as that would kill the Irish model railway market, here in the UK, that said,  down in good old South Africa Bachman ( I think it is) do one of thier bogie deisel for an eye watering £350 pounds very much Ouch!!!!!

Colin

[Ironroad]

This is all speculation (as probably is the price Hattons are projecting) but for what it’s worth here are some thoughts on the subject

If Sterling plummets then the price of all UK imports of model railway items will be affected not just Irish models. So the hobby as a whole in the UK may suffer somewhat.

As regards the pricing of the 121, ultimately I believe this is a matter for Paddy. As a supplier to the trade he should be deciding the recommended retail price in both Euro and GBP. Whether retailers sell below that price is a matter for them, Hattons very often do so.

In establishing the selling price Paddy probably already knows what the retail price in Euro will likely be but cannot divulge this because doing so in the current climate may create an unrealistic expectation of the retail price in Sterling.

Bear in mind that in all probably he will be paying his Chinese manufacturer in USD and prudence dictates that rather than gamble on the future value of the dollar, he should have a forward contract in place with his bank for the anticipated dollar outlays (IE locked in the exchange rate). Accordingly he should already have a very good idea of his costs.  

Whatever retail price is ultimately established for the UK market should have no immediate bearing on how much a buyer in Ireland will pay.  The recommended selling price will be struck at a point in time and at that point the cost to an Irish buyer in Euro whether purchasing in Ireland or from the UK will be very much the same. However, should Sterling plummet subsequent to that point in time, the out of pocket cost in Euro to someone in Ireland purchasing from the UK should be lower. At that time the retail price will have been established and the retailers will already have been invoiced for their purchases (pricing is locked down and their margin is not affected).

Since the 121’s will be released on a phased basis the chances are that the recommended retail price for the initial releases in the UK may not hold for later releases should Sterling plummet.

There is another factor in all of this.  Post Brexit and depending on the terms agreed or not between the UK and the EU, UK retailers should be free to treat sales to EU countries the same as they currently do to countries outside the EU and not collect  VAT on those sales (zero rated).  Of course in those circumstances someone in Ireland buying from a UK retailer would technically be liable to local VAT on importation. However, whether the postman will be knocking on the door to collect that VAT will depend on the ability and will of the Irish Revenue to collect. The logistics may make it prohibitive for them.   

Some of the above may not auger well for Irish model retailers and I’m all too aware of the need to support them. But it does seem to me that they could help themselves compete more effectively for international sales (outside the EU and this may include the UK in the future) if they would only clarify their policy on the charging of VAT on their websites. I’m based in the US and this is the primary reason I go to Hattons.

[DiveController]

5 minutes ago, Ironroad said:

Some of the above may not auger well for Irish model retailers and I’m all too aware of the need to support them. But it does seem to me that they could help themselves compete more effectively for international sales (outside the EU and this may include the UK in the future) if they would only clarify their policy on the charging of VAT on their websites. I’m based in the US and this is the primary reason I go to Hattons.

HI Ironroad,

 Agree with a lot of what you say based on personal experience. I have found it difficult to get Irish retailers to clarify exactly that point. IRM quickly revised their website to deal with this automatically, no requests, no fuss. Dealing with importation taxes in the recipient's country is up to the purchaser.  

[WaYSidE]

On 7/23/2019 at 3:52 AM, Ironroad said:

 There is another factor in all of this.  Post Brexit and depending on the terms agreed or not between the UK and the EU, UK retailers should be free to treat sales to EU countries the same as they currently do to countries outside the EU and not collect  VAT on those sales (zero rated).  Of course in those circumstances someone in Ireland buying from a UK retailer would technically be liable to local VAT on importation. However, whether the postman will be knocking on the door to collect that VAT will depend on the ability and will of the Irish Revenue to collect. The logistics may make it prohibitive for them. 

my bags are packed with your trains

In ireland, i am charged taxes on some importid items from USA, ,, charged by postperson at my door.

wont a hard brexit mean Tarrifs on luxury items,?  to UK, as there is to USA, NZ etc. but not to EU.
as for vat in EU,  intra EU Vat is only Zero rated to businesses who can reclaim on Vies and Vat return,  if you are not vat registered, you pay Vat in EU. as do all private customers.
there used to be vat re-claim but i think thats all gone,   

non EU, tourists can reclaim vat, on purchases made here, so bring large suitcase and ship home with air luggage for cheapest rates.
I am willing to personally deliver them To you in USA, if you pay my fair, time and 3 weeks r n r in Washington state. i will even make irish accent station recordings for you at that price...

[Mayner]

18 hours ago, WaYSidE said:

On 7/23/2019 at 2:52 PM, Ironroad said:

 

There is another factor in all of this.  Post Brexit and depending on the terms agreed or not between the UK and the EU, UK retailers should be free to treat sales to EU countries the same as they currently do to countries outside the EU and not collect  VAT on those sales (zero rated).  Of course in those circumstances someone in Ireland buying from a UK retailer would technically be liable to local VAT on importation. However, whether the postman will be knocking on the door to collect that VAT will depend on the ability and will of the Irish Revenue to collect. The logistics may make it prohibitive for them.   

Some of the above may not auger well for Irish model retailers and I’m all too aware of the need to support them. But it does seem to me that they could help themselves compete more effectively for international sales (outside the EU and this may include the UK in the future) if they would only clarify their policy on the charging of VAT on their websites. I’m based in the US and this is the primary reason I go to Hattons.

 

Internationally Governments are waking up to the loss of revenue from overseas on-line sales.

Received an interesting notice today that NZ goods and sales tax will be charged on the total value of Youshop purchases.

Its likely that the Irish Revenue will require An Post to develop a similar approach with packages from outside the EU.

 Logistics and Courier companies already act as agent for the Revenue and  collect  sales and purchase tax on imports.

Hi John,   As a YouShop customer, we want to keep you up to date about some upcoming policy changes from the New Zealand Government that will affect your YouShop experience. What’s changing? From 1 December 2019, all items purchased from overseas and shipped to your YouShop address will have 15% Goods & Services Tax (GST) applied. GST will be charged on the total value of the goods and YouShop services purchased.   What does this mean to me if I’m using YouShop?  If you’re buying from overseas retailers and shipping to your YouShop address, the retailer will not charge GST at the point of purchase (as they will not be aware that the items’ final destination is NZ). Instead, NZ Post will collect the GST on all purchases (irrespective of value) on behalf of the New Zealand Government, when you pay for your shipping to NZ through YouShop.  If the value of your consignment* is over $1,000 then Customs may also collect duty (and GST on the amount of that duty) at the border.  *A consignment is one or more parcels that have arrived together in New Zealand addressed to the same address/person.  Why are these GST changes being made? With the growth of eCommerce, NZ businesses are at a competitive disadvantage compared to offshore suppliers, as they are required to collect GST on all sales, while overseas retailers don’t. These changes will help level the playing field for local businesses.  Want more information? The New Zealand Government has released a comprehensive Q&A that explains these changes and the rationale behind them in greater detail. You can read this here. YouShop allows you to shop from any retailer in the U.S. and Europe and have it sent to your unique U.S. and U.K. address. So, even if the retailer doesn’t ship to New Zealand, YouShop will have you covered. It may even be cheaper to have your item shipped through YouShop over the retailer’s international shipping rates, so it’s always a good idea to check.

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[Broithe]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

Internationally Governments are waking up to the loss of revenue from overseas on-line sales.

In the UK, the threshold for tax being due on items from outside the EU is currently £15. Upwards from there, you are liable to 20% VAT, which is sort of OK. However, Royal Mail will also charge you a fee for handling the payment on your behalf, this is a flat rate fee of £8. Thus, an item worth £14.99 will arrive 'free' after you pay the vendor a total of £14.99 for it. An item judged to be worth £15 on arrival will cost you a total of £26 ( 26 = 15 + 3 + 8 ) - and be subject to a sometimes considerable delay. 

Buying an item close to the threshold has an element of risk - the 'value on arrival' is not within your control, it is down to an assessment made on 'your behalf' at the time of arrival - you may even have a receipt for an actual payment below £15, but a further slide of the pound during transit can tip you over into being liable to the Royal Mail ransom + VAT.

Paying for something with 'free postage' can add to your woes, if the vendor then declares the total to be the value of the item - much better to have the item value and postage as separate amounts.

The threshold issue may not be such a problem in the model railway world, but it does cause some trepidation around CDs, DVDs, etc.

 

[skinner75]

An Post also charge a 'handling fee' if your item gets stopped for duty by Customs:
"A fee of 1% of the value, with a minimum charge of €10 per packet or parcel, is charged by An Post for customs clearance of parcels imported from countries outside the EU. This fee is in addition to any duty or VAT payable."

The thing that really annoys me is that Customs will base the duty they charge you on the price of the item plus postage costs, which I don't think is fair.

"If your goods have:

• a customs value (including cost, transport, insurance and handling charges) of €22 or less you will not have to pay Customs Duty or VAT
• a customs value of more than €22 you will have to pay VAT
• an intrinsic value (the value of the goods alone excluding transport, insurance and handling charges) of more than €150 you will have to pay Customs Duty."

[StevieB]

As one of a famous duo would say to the other, that’s another fine mess you’ve gotten me into. Our politicians do like to make life difficult for us, the ones who voted them in.

Stephen

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, skinner75 said:

An Post also charge a 'handling fee' if your item gets stopped for duty by Customs:
"A fee of 1% of the value, with a minimum charge of €10 per packet or parcel, is charged by An Post for customs clearance of parcels imported from countries outside the EU. This fee is in addition to any duty or VAT payable."

The thing that really annoys me is that Customs will base the duty they charge you on the price of the item plus postage costs, which I don't think is fair.

 

What do other countries do?

There are no global guidelines for collecting GST or similar taxes on low-value imported goods.

However New Zealand’s new rules are similar to the rules introduced by Australia in July 2018.

The European Union (EU) has committed to collecting Value Added Tax (VAT) on imported goods from sellers outside the EU from 1 January 2021.

Internationally the customs value is based on the gross cost including shipping for both commercial and private imports.  

Interestingly from December it will be cheaper for me to import goods between $400-$1000 than at present as "customs recovery charges" will be removed from goods below $1000

[DartStation]

A few pics of the first pre production 121’s on their way to Ireland for testing 

enjoy

 

[popeye]

Very nice, they will look great when painted. 

[RedRich]

Very promising they really capture the look of these wonderful and unique locos. It's fantastic to know that soon we will have all 4 Illinois GM's modelled to such a high standard. Mr Murphy has pulled off another top model and deserves all the respect and plaudits he is due.

Rich,

[StevieB]

Can’t wait to get my hands on one, or four.

Stephen

[Noel]

These look the best yet from Murphy Models. Love the iconic see through side grills like the prototype. MM have raised the bar yet again. Really looking forward to these. Like the user friendly pop off top plate for fitting DCC chips. Difficult to be sure but those axle covers look like they may even rotate! Will be off to Marks models as soon as these hit the shelves to acquire some of these.

[irishthump]

Bloody amazing!

I imagine the speaker will be housed somewhere under the front grill?

Is it coming pre fitted with a speaker?

[Edo]

Looks fantastic - cant wait.

[7601]

Speaker will be included........

Axle Hubs will rotate..........

[MOGUL]

On 8/22/2019 at 12:34 PM, skinner75 said:

An Post also charge a 'handling fee' if your item gets stopped for duty by Customs:
"A fee of 1% of the value, with a minimum charge of €10 per packet or parcel, is charged by An Post for customs clearance of parcels imported from countries outside the EU. This fee is in addition to any duty or VAT payable."

The thing that really annoys me is that Customs will base the duty they charge you on the price of the item plus postage costs, which I don't think is fair.

"If your goods have:

• a customs value (including cost, transport, insurance and handling charges) of €22 or less you will not have to pay Customs Duty or VAT
• a customs value of more than €22 you will have to pay VAT
• an intrinsic value (the value of the goods alone excluding transport, insurance and handling charges) of more than €150 you will have to pay Customs Duty."

All customs duty is calculated on what is called the landed value of the goods I.e the total costs up to the point the arrive into the country.. so normally the value of the goods, plus goods in transit insurance and freight.. 

VAT is payable on the lander value plus the duty..

Luckily, railway models are zero rated so vat would be the only consideration post brexit

[chris]

In reality though mayner you need to be unlucky to get pinged for GST in NZ. None of my railway purchases have ever been stopped by customs to add the tax, and most were well over the $400 Mark. The declaration on the box usually gives a lower value regardless of what store has supplied it. It's easy to get around.

 

[ttc0169]

Thanks Paul for sharing the fantastic photos of the 121s,

Well done to Paddy Murphy for his perseverance and patience with the 121 project-it has taken a long time to get to this stage-(through no fault of Paddy)-but thankfully there are headlights at the end of the tunnel now and I am really looking forward to the release of these models-and the 001s in due course 

Now back to Tara junction for a site survey to make space for the 121s and 001s.....

[7601]

Paddy Murphy will be in Mark's Models, Hawkin's Street on Saturday 7th September 2019 between 11am and 12pm.......

He will have His 121 on display for All to see.......

All Welcome..........

[spudfan]

All Garda leave has been cancelled to assist with crowd control for the appearance of Paddy and the 121.

 Some people are getting ready for the end of the world owing to the momentousness (?) of the occasion. Some are saying this was mentioned in the Mayan calendar as one of the signs that would signal the end of civilisation as we know it. Boris Johnson is complaining that it is a ruse by the Irish government to divert attention from him. Me, well I'm going to wrap myself in tin foil tonight ...just incase.

[leslie10646]

Boris Johnson is complaining that it is a ruse by the Irish government to divert attention from him.

Rubbish!  7601 works in No.10 Downing Street and it's a ploy to get the headlines away from BoJo.

But if it's true - Good Luck, Paddy!

[DJ Dangerous]

Did anybody visit Marks Models yesterday to see the 121?