Project 42 Update

[DiveController]

The colorful spring and other bogie parts are a very recent detail and were not present on any photos of 1970s wagons even when new and unweathered. They would be correct for the spoil wagons of the present century as Fran has indicated above

We're down to the last Pack B of Bell continers, all Pack A and CIE containers are gone, just the 20+ packs of B&I container flats left (containers which are not available anywhere else , that I'm aware of) 

Edited December 15, 2019 by DiveController

[gm171 kk]

This is what a refurbished 42' flat looked like in 95. Most had the Y33 bogies like the IRM wagon. 

[Noel]

11 hours ago, DiveController said:

The colorful spring and other bogie parts are a very recent detail and were not present on any photos of 1970s wagons even when new and unweathered. They would be correct for the spoil wagons of the present century as Fran has indicated above

We're down to the last Pack B of Bell continers, all Pack A and CIE containers are gone, just the 20+ packs of B&I container flats left (containers which are not available anywhere else , that I'm aware of) 

A judicious bit of bogie weathering should soon cover the modern green/blue colours (ie for 1970s running). Fortunately ordered a set of B&I wagons yesterday.

[DiveController]

On 12/14/2019 at 7:36 AM, NIRCLASS80 said:

 

I'm presuming that was a video. It just comes up as a large blank within the post and no opportunity to link into YouTube or whatever to get it to work (it may not have been posted there, I know). Working on a fairly modern iMac, not sure why this occurs sometimes....

22 hours ago, gm171 kk said:

Will the keg wagons come with these? Will they also have the brown bogies? 

they would have been like this in the 70-2000s

EDIT:Apologies the links were duplicated and I cannot find the images again but here's one at least

This would be my favorite link from this set with the cement bubbles in tow

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/45304021234/in/photolist-8DnoUq-RhQTHW-2ahWmFQ-R5YFfJ-2c2mX9o-2arjFqG-2d9iN6s-oVDn3r-2and6p1-9wzXgn-2hFiC4z-2hEAccZ/

Does anyone have any details on the tarps covering the kegs on this Belfast bound train?

 

Occasionally the bogies were green on the 42' in modern times however ....  

Edited December 15, 2019 by DiveController

[gm171 kk]

I think the IRM keg pallets were in traffic from about 95/96/97 on 47' and 22' skeletal wagons. The last few years of keg liners saw the 42' wagons in use too. I'm modelling the mid 90s and hoping to preorder a pack of the keg wagons when the time comes. 

[DiveController]

Speaking of keg liners, while we refer to them as Guinness liners, some of the transported kegs were for other companies such as Murphy's (albeit with a small market share relative to Guinness). These are labelled as 'Guinness kegs' but one can clearly see the banded ones (on the near right, at least) at the North Esk location in Cork  are embossed with Whitbread, one of the successors that purchased the Murphy's brand. The silver kegs in the background may well all belong to Guinness reflecting its superior share of the stout market!

 

[gm171 kk]

20 minutes ago, DiveController said:

Speaking of keg liners, while we refer to them as Guinness liners, some of the transported kegs were for other companies such as Murphy's (albeit with a small market share relative to Guinness). These are labelled as 'Guinness kegs' but one can clearly see the banded ones (on the near right, at least) at the North Esk location in Cork  are embossed with Whitbread, one of the successors that purchased the Murphy's brand. The silver kegs in the background may well all belong to Guinness reflecting its superior share of the stout market!

 

 

The Kilkenny/Waterford to Heuston liner used to carry Budweiser from Kilkenny and Bulmers from Waterford. It probably carried Guinness kegs to those locations also. 

[DiveController]

2 hours ago, gm171 kk said:

I think the IRM keg pallets were in traffic from about 95/96/97 on 47' and 22' skeletal wagons. The last few years of keg liners saw the 42' wagons in use too. I'm modelling the mid 90s and hoping to preorder a pack of the keg wagons when the time comes. 

The 47' wagons were constructed for Guinness traffic in the very late 70s. Was the majority of bogie liner traffic prior to mid 1990s on the 47' wagons (and not on the 42' flats)?

What were the dimensions keg cage? I find it difficult to tell 42s from 47s on a rake of wagons. Could  the 47' only take 6 pallets whereas the 42' flats could take six? The 4 wheelers used seem to be able to carry three on presumably a 14' wheelbase.

What was being used for keg transport prior to the introduction of the 47' flats?

[Mayner]

5 hours ago, DiveController said:

The 47' wagons were constructed for Guinness traffic in the very late 70s. Was the majority of bogie liner traffic prior to mid 1990s on the 47' wagons (and not on the 42' flats)?

What were the dimensions keg cage? I find it difficult to tell 42s from 47s on a rake of wagons. Could  the 47' only take 6 pallets whereas the 42' flats could take six? The 4 wheelers used seem to be able to carry three on presumably a 14' wheelbase.

What was being used for keg transport prior to the introduction of the 47' flats?

 

The containers/swap bodies used by CIE/IE to transport palletised keg traffic went through at least three distinct phases of development since the late 1960s.

The IRM Guinness Keg Liner appears to be based on the final phase with the introduction of caged pallets (that carried kegs three tiers high) that were introduced in the 1990s.

Keg traffic was initially palletised in the late 1960s using 20' open containers/swap bodies which carried kegs in two tiers high running on recently introduced 12' wheelbase flat wagons.

This system was replaced in the late 1970s by shorter 9'? swap bodies used in conjunction with the 47'6" flats, these swap bodies were set up with removable slatted sides like a brewery lorry and fitted with forklift pockets presumably to minimise handling during shipment from the brewery to the local pub or hotel.

The caged pallet system featured in the IRM model and SSM keg cage appears to have been introduced in the late 80s/early 90s , when IE closed many of the smaller freight yards and rationalised rail traffic to a small number of hub locations such as Athlone, Claremorris, Galway, Longford and Sligo on the Midland, closing Mullingar, Boyle, Roscommon, Ballinasloe to keg traffic.

The conversion of 14' wheelbase flat wagons to carry keg traffic appears to have been a 1990s development to make better use of these wagons and free up more bogie wagons for container traffic. The conversion of the 62'9" wagons (used on the Cork & Galway Liners) to carry timber in the mid 1990s would have resulted in a shortage of bogie wagons despite the ending of Sundries and mail traffic in 1993.

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Mayner

[BosKonay]

17 hours ago, Noel said:

A judicious bit of bogie weathering should soon cover the modern green/blue colours (ie for 1970s running). Fortunately ordered a set of B&I wagons yesterday.

To clarify Noel, the liners are all wearing the correct, brown bogies on the liner packs.

[Mayner]

Jonathan Allen's feature on the Keg trains includes a number of photos of the keg containers/swapbodies introduced  in conjunction with the 47'6" flats in the late 1970s  https://www.flickr.com/photos/64433281@N07/32352084940/in/photolist-8DnoUq-RhQTHW-2ahWmFQ-R5YFfJ-2c2mX9o-2arjFqG-2d9iN6s-oVDn3r-2and6p1-9wzXgn-2hFiC4z-2hEAccZ/

 

 

[Noel]

2 hours ago, BosKonay said:

To clarify Noel, the liners are all wearing the correct, brown bogies on the liner packs.

Thanks for that Stephen. My order for the Bells hadn't arrived as of yet so wasn't sure. Since also ordered CIE + B&I and pre-ordered ferts.

[JasonB]

Got home this evening with a smile on my face and a package under my arm. Straight away the other half was suspicious.

Her : What's in the box?

Me : Erm... It's your Christmas present, I'm just heading out to the shed to wrap it. 

Her : The shed, to wrap it? Whatever. 

Don't think she fell for it. Anyway, just been having a quick look. Absolutely superb models. It just gets better and better.  

Dug out a couple of 20fts to try also

 

[burnthebox]

Hi JasonB & congratulations on getting those beauties, for a minute or so there I thought my Specsavers were deceiving me, when I spotted the 20ft’s had a quick check but all’s well, 

BTB

[ttc0169]

A box of WONKA bars arrived yesterday.....there were five golden tickets inside....needless to say I'm as happy as an oompah Loompa in sh......

 

 

[Railer]

The lads must be delighted at the sale success of these, how long of a wait for another run is the question, especially with the rest of project 42 to get through.

[Warbonnet]

10 minutes ago, Railer said:

The lads must be delighted at the sale success of these, how long of a wait for another run is the question, especially with the rest of project 42 to get through.

Honestly? We really should've made more. We're a bit gutted that we didnt as we have a lot of people contacting us still. It's encouraging that the market has grown, and we will be doing bigger production runs from now on, but what used to last almost 12 months stock wise, now lasts a week! We wanted to make more of the liners when we saw demand spike a couple of months back, but we were governed by the Bell and B&I containers we ordered as they were already made at that stage, so we had to stick to the production quantity we originally asked for. 

Still, we will absolutely make another run of liner flats in the future. The question is; same container liveries or new liveries? Hmmmm.....

Rest of the 42 comes first though. And ballasts run 2, and A..... 

All 42ft flat orders have been sent out. Please note that they take a few days to land as they're coming from the UK, and bare in mind the time of year too, so they may take a couple of extra days. It was also a mammoth amount of orders that needed packing too! 

We have noticed that some of the wheels can be a little stiffer than usual. We recommend HL657 Hob-e-lube around the axle box and hub and some running in will see them free up. WD40 has also worked/

Thank you to everyone who has ordered them and your patience for waiting for them, we hope they were worth the wait! The Ferts will be here in late January all going well, so something else to look forward to in the new year! 

Cheers!

Fran

[Noel]

Fran, Thanks for the update and the tip re the axle box lube. When do you think the A classes may be here? I've kadee'd mine already and now its time for a light weathering of the chassis and the containers. Beautiful wagons yet again. Looking forward to the Fertilisers in the new year.

[Warbonnet]

Thanks Noel. The A's are still on course for late March, with the factory completing our tweaks as we speak. We're hoping for some decorated samples very soon and once we have them we will show them here and in all the usual places.

Cheers!

Fran

[NIRCLASS80]

Great wagon lads. I would be interested in flats without containers as I already have a good collection of containers. 
 

I found this oil and running helped to improve the running immensely. 

[RedRich]

I had a good look at mine last night and my only complaint  is that I didn't order more, but as Fran has said above there will be another run in the future.

It must have been fun at times during the design stages especially with the mechanics around the swing of the bogies. The representation of the brake gear is a nice touch and looks great when they are not loaded.

The diecast chassis is really crisp and exceeds the levels I imagined. There is also a nice weight to the CIE containers. 

What is amazing though is if you look at the CIE pack you are actually getting six items in the pack. The containers would retail at about €8 per wagon if sold separately so four would be €32. That means €34 per wagon and that represents great value for such a damn fine wagon.

All in all another great release and roll on the rest of project 42. Not wishing to start a wish list but a 22ft flat with 14ft wheelbase would be smashing especially to go with the Keg liners, three cages per wagon and could be used for timber trains and containers.

Rich,

[DiveController]

10 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Still, we will absolutely make another run of liner flats in the future. The question is; same container liveries or new liveries? Hmmmm.....

And ballasts run 2, and A..... 

Fran, my preference would be to see new flats with new numbers and different containers perhaps a 40ft CIE and 20ft Bells maybe one with a reefer. People who wanted more than one rake might appreciate the opportunity to swap/resell the original for the new ones which would suit both the seller and those that have missed out on the 'current' run. Different containers would allow greater variety for a more authentic rake. As Mayner points out the 20ft cubes were more prevalent on (say) the Cork liner with heavier more compact goods versus larger volume goods which needed 40ft boxes. For those modeling an earlier period 20ft cubes were also more prevalent than the larger boxes which became more common with time and as the freight traffic grew. Hope we can see some of the earlier 4w freight wagons that would take the  20ft cubes at some point.

There are to be more ballasts in presumably the CIE era (versus the more modern previous run) to suit the CIE and IR ploughs? I rather hoped we might see more ballasts in the form of the dolomites or a derivative such as the magnesites. I don't need to but I' d probably sell on my ballast to someone who desired them more than I if that happened. My own particular interests; it would be nice to see a 'Project 20' with things that ran on the 10-14ft wheelbase for those modeling an earlier period and given the increased interest that seems to be expressed in Irish outline maybe even a limited run of more specialized wagons such as barytes, magnesite, dropside cements? 

Not looking for any production guarantees here , just some thoughts since your 'asked' 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by DiveController

[patrick]

4 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Great wagon lads. I would be interested in flats without containers as I already have a good collection of containers. 
 

I found this oil and running helped to improve the running immensely. 

I have had good results with Kadee Grease-Em, a graphite powder used to lubricate their cuplers.

[Robert Shrives]

I applied just a pin heads worth of the hobby lube white teflon grease to the nibs on the bogie that retains the axles as the rotating caps run just clear of the chassis so need no lub - I was fearful that such would attract fluff or static grass etc - as I have found on over lubed locos I have repaired.  A quick spin after applying showed a massive improvement and not visible on the bogies - weathering next. Some where I have two SSM water tank containers that I ought to dig out and fix on to help display  the fantastic wagon frames - and use my 3D print ones for the containers.

Thanks gents for the great work.

Robert       

[Ironroad]

7 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Great wagon lads. I would be interested in flats without containers as I already have a good collection of containers. 

I agree absolutely. Not unusual to see them running without loads and there is quite a variety of suitable containers already available, more I think that it would be practical to expect from IRM even in the medium term..   Sets of three flats in a box?? I'll commit to at least four sets immediately perhaps more depending on finances, anyone else?  I would hope this could be a quick project since the leg work has been done already.

8 hours ago, Warbonnet said:

Still, we will absolutely make another run of liner flats in the future. The question is; same container liveries or new liveries? Hmmmm.....

Fran, B&I 40'  and CIE 20' containers are worth repeating but beyond that I would suggest only containers unique to the Irish system not already available on the market e.g. CIE 40'.

If you are to only supply flats complete with containers I would anticipate a long wait for things like Bell reefers, regular Bell 20's,  Maersk, Nedlloyd, P&O, Hapag Lloyd, Evergreen etc. (in 20's and 40"s). In the meantime since these are already available from C Rail, those of us that want to run these on your flats are probably faced with purchasing more of particular containers from you that we may not really want and that may result in some resistance, but I’m not a marketing expert.

[DoctorPan]

I would also add my hat into the ring for more Bells 40's and 20s. 

[DiveController]

On 12/16/2019 at 1:35 PM, JasonB said:

Dug out a couple of 20fts to try also

 

Now that's what I'm talking especially the single centrally loaded flat, and of course as has been said an empty flat rake in itself looks great

10 hours ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Great wagon lads. I would be interested in flats without containers as I already have a good collection of containers. 

One thing that C-rail don't do is a B&I container, so well done on that front!

[skinner75]

Packs of empty flats, with different numbers to those already released, would sell well in the future. 

[PJR]

CIE 20' containers please.

[Railer]

I think the thing with releasing just flats is that IRM now have 2 types. They have one set up for a 40ft and the other set up for 2x 20fts. If you try and put a 40 container on the latter it will be pushed up in the centre by the locking nubs. Same thing trying to centreally place a 20 container on the flat set up for 2x 20s. I bit of filling can fix this depending on how one wants to allocate their flats.

One thing I have noticed with all my flats is that they are all slightly arched in the middle which makes the buffer beams droop down noticeably. Better than sagging in the middle I suppose. Could be the metal with the cold temperatures.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Railer

[popeye]

The little yellow studs can be removed, i think they are glued but come out with a knife.

I would like to see a set with tanktainers, Bruhn, GCA Tainer, Eurotainer, Dana, etc.

[Railer]

3 hours ago, popeye said:

The little yellow studs can be removed, i think they are glued but come out with a knife.

I would like to see a set with tanktainers, Bruhn, GCA Tainer, Eurotainer, Dana, etc.

The tanktainers like GCA and Dana mainly rain on the 47fts in fairly recent times. I asked C Rail about making some Danas a few years back but he said he did not have enough photo material to do accurately. I have about a dozen of his GCAs and they are nice.

Some Norfolk containers would be nice but again, for the newer 42s and 47s. I wouldn't mind some of the spurious green containers that regularly ran in the Bell liner rakes.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Railer

[Arran]

HI All

I got a new batch of Bell 20fts but they are the old style 20fts which are more prototypical, i dont have any info on Dana so good all round pics along with colours and its a good one to do, Bruhn i have all the info.

B+I 20ft I've never seen although going by records they must have had them, The CIE 40ft i never new existed till that pic this week but my 40ft with the advertising panels is as close as it can get, so that can be done unless IMR want a run for the wagons , the BELL and B+I 40 fts we supplied for the project 42 wagons look good and its great to be involved bringing accuracy and models to the hobby that take it to the next level.

I have some loads more old style containers left to do as well as the ones you would have seen on new style containers but the earlier years like MOL with the croc on the box Orange NYK to mention some.

Regards Arran

 

 

[RedRich]

On 12/16/2019 at 2:18 AM, DiveController said:

The 47' wagons were constructed for Guinness traffic in the very late 70s. Was the majority of bogie liner traffic prior to mid 1990s on the 47' wagons (and not on the 42' flats)?

What were the dimensions keg cage? I find it difficult to tell 42s from 47s on a rake of wagons. Could  the 47' only take 6 pallets whereas the 42' flats could take six? The 4 wheelers used seem to be able to carry three on presumably a 14' wheelbase.

What was being used for keg transport prior to the introduction of the 47' flats?

42 always carried five cages and 47 carried six. It was also common to see two or three cages on a 42 or 47 amongst fully loaded wagons.

Rich,

[WRENNEIRE]

 

Love these Arran, gret job